Mike Southon: This is Mike Southon For Beermat Radio. And today I'm talking to Michael Hayman from the Communications Group. Hi Michael.
Michael Hayman: Hi Mike
Mike Southon: Now something you've been working on recently and I have a copy of it here is a report you've done with Coutts, called "Face Value: Your Reputation as a Business Asset" tell me about some of the people in this report, I mean, why was this originated in the first place, what was the motivation for doing it?
Michael Hayman: Well it was written very much with entrepreneurs in mind. Coutts is one of the leading banks for entrepreneurs and one of the things they've been doing is investigating a number of the big issues that affect their client base, and the role of reputation, especially reputation in a tougher economic climate is some thing that is of interest to them. So over the last 10 months or so I've been going round having a number of different interviews, trying to come up with a basic premise and argument about the changing role of reputation. Because what our starting point was is that it's almost a Cinderella asset if you like. It's one of these things that it's very hard in life to say "what is the value of a positive reputation" put that in pounds shillings and pence, but what is absolutely clear is that you understand the loss of it almost overnight.
So we looked into this and we started to come up with an idea that actually there was a face value to entrepreneurs, that there was literally, and indeed all big people that actually they had an equity in the same way that other brands have, so this started to look into the role of values that they put into their business internally; the messages they put out in terms of creating a culture for their business.
So we started to interview and one of the big things that came out was that reputation was very important, but a reputation for leadership was absolutely pivotal. And what we were observing through the interviews was almost a more presidential style of running businesses especially amongst mid to larger size businesses where the role of the leader figure was pivotal in the creation of a positive perception in the market place and we interviewed people in the media like Sir Max Hastings, we interviewed Michael Heseltine as the former deputy Prime Minister but more recently obviously in the role as Haymarket. A number on entrepreneurs themselves including shirt maker Emma Willis and Tom Aikens the Chef, where we were looking at how does this work for smaller entrepreneurs.
Because I think everybody will go along with you in terms of understanding that for Richard Branson and Alan Sugar and Donald Trump their reputation is a big part of their sell, but actually what we found was that this is not just the sort of preserve of the rich and famous, it's actually very much the preserve of a number of fast growth younger entrepreneurs quite often, people who are getting out there and creating a brand that works hand in hand with their business, and what we observed was that in some instances business leaders have become the absolute personification of the brands they lead and quite often they become interchangeable and that carries a whole number of opportunities but also risks with it that you need to mitigate against and plan for.
So the second half of the report looks very much in terms of what can you do about it? How do you tender it? And the one thing that we felt very strongly about - and of course, having been - we would say that wouldn't we, being a public relations company, is that you can have a reputation that you can allow to grow ramblingly by default, or you can have a go at creating it by design. And I know which one I'd favour in terms of my own reputation in the business world.
Mike Southon: And talking about face value and reputation, you did that with Coutts themselves. Now, they've got a fascinating brand in that if you ask the man in the street, or the man on the Clapham Omnibus – what do you know about Coutts, the one thing they'll say is that "oh, isn't that the Queen's bank" which is something that Coutts would never say themselves, it's just it's got into public consciousness. It may or may not be true, we can't find out.
Michael Hayman: Yes, ‘you may say that, but I couldn't possibly comment'. (laughs)
Mike Southon: They've got a fantastic reputation in terms of being a private bank, being very elite and stuff. And obviously they care very much about face value, how do you perceive Coutts perceive its own brand, and how does it promote the brand, when it doesn't want to become a mass-market brand.
Michael Hayman: No, I think it's definitely not a mass market brand. But it is very well known and influential amongst certain very strong and distinct communities, one of them being entrepreneurs. I think it is actually the biggest UK private bank for entrepreneurs, that's where our interest came. And I think that a lot of it – it's a very prestigious institution, but I think it's also an institution that is incredibly relevant for the 21st century in terms of it's ability to reinvent itself, have a history and understanding, I think it has its own entrepreneurial background in the role of Thomas Coutts etc., and I think that has infiltrated in terms of its style of business so I think that as a style of bank it's fantastic. I mean, the way it operates, the way it puts people together.
I would describe Coutts as a Discovery brand. I think that's the way that I would under- you have to unravel them a little bit. Unpeel the onion if you like: the more you go into it, the more you get out of it in terms of a deeper richness of understanding, so there are these – as you say – there are these headlines about who they represent and that sort of thing. I think that's the froth rather than the substance. And I think that (inaudible) bottom line, is a lot of their products are very good. And I think people buy into that very strongly. But they also provide this if you like intellectually stimulating sort of arena environment, if you will, in terms of the sorts of forums that they run for entrepreneurs, those sorts of things and we've been able to contribute to that and they're open to a good idea. That's what I'd say about them.
Mike Southon: But you mentioned there about the people you meet, I mean, how good is the network in Coutts? Or the network of customers that you meet?
Michael Hayman: The network is fantastic. I think that's an absolute stand out strength for Coutts. I mean they don't – obviously they would never say who the clients are but in terms of the people that you meet at the various receptions and so on, it's absolutely brilliant, because actually you're talking to people who are on the front line of business, you can share opinions and view.
Mark McCormack – he said something very interesting once. He talked about the role of friendship in business and he said that "all things being equal people will buy from a friend" and then he said "all things being unequal, people will still buy from a friend." I think the one thing that I feel that Coutts has provided me as a customer is an environment where I've made a lot of friends. I think the role of friendship in business is hugely important in terms of the ability to have the positive preference of the market, do repeat business, come up with interesting ideas, and so it provides that kind of forum where people can get together and also have access to different types of expertise and I think that we've had the opportunity to talk about the role of reputation but I was also interested in learning from other Coutts clients about the role of entrepreneurialism because I run a small entrepreneurial business of my own and there are a lot of different skill sets that are contained from within this bank that I'd like to learn more about.
Mike Southon: This has been Mike Southon for Beermat Radio in association with Coutts and I've been chatting with Michael Hayman. Thank you Michael
Michael Hayman: Thanks very much, Mike.
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